WHYcast transcript episode 7

WHYcast episode
Episode Nr.	7

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This is the full transcript generated using AI tools and some human oversight. It may contain errors. Please review and correct obvious mistakes before publishing.

Transcript 7

Nancy: Hi, and welcome to the WHYcast episode 7. I’m Nancy.

Ad: I’m Ad.

Nancy: And we are the hosts of the only podcast about a hacker camp in the world. This volunteer-run event will take place next year in the Netherlands, approximately 42 kilometers above Amsterdam from August 8 to 12, 2025. So Ad, what are we talking about today?

Ad: Well, first off, we have some news from Project Lead. There’s some cool stuff happening there. We have the “Where to Hack” segment. We have another cool story from Walter. Just like last time, we have an interview with Mac from a production house, and obviously the vacancy of the week.

Nancy: Very cool. So let’s start off with at least one little news item from me, from Project Lead. We had a proper kickoff with the full Team:Permits, which is good because we have a team. That’s very cool. We have a combination of people who have been well-known in the community for years and some new faces. I think it’s exciting that we’re bringing new people into the organization as well. Of course, it’s great to see that we have someone like Jick, who knows everything about fire.

Ad: It’s a mix of dedicated people and new people who are interested in the whole community and want to experience it up close. Volunteering is a great way to see this event from close by and be part of it.

Nancy: Yeah. One of the people I asked for this particular role was Ming, and she was like, “But I’m not technical at all.” I said, “I know, but you’re a trained nurse.” For the permits team, it’s very handy to have some medical and first-aid knowledge. It doesn’t matter that you don’t have a technical background. What matters is that you have the knowledge and the willingness to do stuff, make it happen, and ensure the permits are in order.

Ad: Make stuff happen. Yep.

Nancy: So that was cool. On a personal note, last Saturday I gave a conference speech called “You Should Cuddle a Hacker.” It wasn’t in Dutch, though—so the recordings are in Dutch. I took a course on humor and authenticity because I spend a lot of time on stage, and I wanted proper training on how to use humor to get your message across. I did a funny sketch about why everybody in the world should become a hacker, and I succeeded—now I’m officially “humor-proof” and I have a badge to prove it, which I’ll put on LinkedIn soon.

Ad: Congratulations.

Nancy: Very cool to hear. Everyone in the audience without a technical background said, “I want to be a hacker now,” so I think I did a good job.

Ad: Awesome. So they’re all coming to WHY?

Nancy: I hope so.

Nancy: Speaking of presentations—

Ad: Yes. Crystal also gave a presentation at WICCON yesterday. By the time this is out, it’ll be online. She did the “History of Hacker Camps” in three flavors: Crystal’s solo version, a Nancy solo version, and a duo version with the two of us together.

Ad: If you want any of the three on your event, please reach out. We want to spread the word about WHY events.

Nancy: We both enjoy giving this presentation a lot. You can find the duo version from BornHack on YouTube; I’ll link it in the show notes. There’s a Crystal version from EMF and a Nancy version from 1Call. It’s a “permanent beta” presentation—it improves and changes every time based on the audience.

Ad: We’d love more stages to present on—please let us know.

Nancy: Each week in “Where the Heck,” we share where you can find like-minded people and great events.

Ad: Last time we talked about EnlU on November 5–7. There’s CyberSec Netherlands at the Jaarbeurs in Utrecht, with familiar faces like Brenno de Winter, Donnnbier from the Dutch Intelligence and Security Service, Frank, and representatives from Orange Cyber Defense, Northwave, Darktrace, ESET, and more—many people who have been to hacker camps. Why-minded people, indeed.

Nancy: Although with a suit, it’s a bit of a “bobo party,” so to speak. I heard from Marika at BL Piiindakaas that she’ll be there with David from the Dutch Institute of Vulnerabilities and Security. We’ll do some guerrilla marketing for WHY there—just look for our banner.

Nancy: Now it’s time to dive into history again. We have another story by Walter about Hacking in Progress, the 1997 camp—our “80s hacker” crossover history lesson.

Ad: Yes, perfect. Each episode we dive into a piece of history from the predecessors of WHY2025: Galactic Hacker Party ’89, Hackers at the End of the Universe ’93, Hacking in Progress ’97, Hackers at Large ’01, What the Hack ’05, Hacking at Random ’09, Observe, Hack, Make ’13, Still Hacking Anyways ’17, May Contain Hackers ’21, and here we are with May Contain Hackers ’22. This week, Hacking in Progress ’97.

Walter: I have stories about the HIP camp, Hacking in Progress, in 1997 in the middle of the Netherlands. It was the first camp I volunteered at—I helped set up the network. We were there during build-up, setting up tents in a location with no light pollution, so the starry sky was beautiful. By evening, we’d done all our volunteer work and could gaze at the stars. The site had a big sandy pit for campfires and barbecues in the open space—pure middle-of-nowhere.

Rob did the opening talk, welcoming everyone “in the exact middle of nowhere.” Technically, they had a live video feed during the opening with 2600, the US hacker group. In 1997, bandwidth to the US wasn’t great, so it “sort of” worked. There was a main tent seating a thousand people plus a small workshop tent.

They printed badges like at CCC. You paid with “HIPs”—50 cents each—at the bar. The food was good (even pizza for the first time!), a change from earlier “ugly but healthy” conference food. By then, the police had learned about these camps and wanted to see what was happening. The organizers said, “Fine, if police want in, let’s give them a special badge.” They considered pink with a PIC icon but settled on orange. Some off-duty officers wore regular badges, so you couldn’t tell who was police. Enthusiastic campers even made their own orange “police” badges.

Ad: How was the interaction between visitors and police? Hostile or friendly?

Walter: Not hostile—it depended on the officer. Some, like “Harry on the Water” from Amsterdam’s central crime unit, were open and engaged in dialogue. He discussed hacking effects and steered people toward legal, beneficial uses of their skills. In the 80s, hacking was legal until computer crime laws arrived just before HIP, so hackers had to choose between risky exploits or productive, lawful work.

Nancy: Excellent. I want to nerd out: before the event, there were a couple of analog phone lines, but I read they had a 6 Mbps uplink. Was it usable with 2,000 people on 1,600 computers?

Walter: The network was better than analog lines—but still, 1997. I brought a PC with a 20 MB hard disk and discovered MP3s there—the first time I saw music compression fit multiple songs on 20 MB. I also remember an Apple “Windows 95” this video on Usenet that was funny but too big for my disk. File sharing was already happening—pre-Napster.

I also took a photo next to a warning sign “Watch out, hack”—we found it pretty funny.

Ad: While you get that picture, note that in a previous episode we covered the Peg DHCP, first used at HIP. Check back for that history lesson.

Walter: I can’t share my screen now—I need to restart Zoom.

Ad: No problem. We’ll add the picture to the YouTube video and link it in the show notes. Any other cool HIP details?

Walter: Not specifically.

Ad: Thank you for those stories. We’ll see you in a future episode. Nancy, do you know who picked our theme song?

Nancy: Yes. One of the three team leads of Productiehuis—Bix.

Ad: We interviewed Mac from Productiehuis(not Bix), who handles audio at events like HackerHotel. Let’s listen.

Nancy: With me today is Mac, who will tell us everything about his team, Productiehuis. Mac, introduce yourself and how you joined the team.

Mac: I’m one of the older guys here, with a sound-engineering background. I’ve touched every aspect of it. I heard through the grapevine before SHA that production needed help. Last minute in April, I contacted Bix saying, “I’ll help.” At SHA I did my first camp—and got hooked. Production’s goal is simple: make audio, video, streaming, and later YouTube/CCC clips run smoothly. We split into stage side—my focus—and video side, supported by the fabulous C3VOC team from Germany. Bix liaises between us and C3VOC. Together we’re pretty professional—proud of that—mistakes and all.

Nancy: We can watch most talks from recent camps online—a treasure trove of knowledge preserved for a long time. It’s a challenge to archive properly, but two places is a good start. Every year we try something new: the first year we had LED screens (mixed success, but helpful in sunlight), then switched to projectors (also mixed). This year, back to LEDs—but after testing first. It ties closely with the tent team, so the tent is dark enough for screens.

Mac: Tents are our foundation; without knowing their specs, we’re lost. We adapt everything around stage and tent. At MCH we tested a weird speaker system. This time, for accessibility, we’re installing induction loops for hearing-aid users.

Nancy: Simon from Team:Accessibility will love that. I hear you’ve almost secured a third amplifier for the loops?

Mac: Yes—but I need one more. If anyone has an induction loop covering at least 15 × 15 m—maybe from an old church—please reach out.

Mac: For each talk we need at least these “angels”: audio mixer, video mixer (who may also run a camera), and a signal angel to relay chat questions live to speakers—that’s three or four people per talk. With four tents instead of three and multiple stages, we need a lot of angels. We also need hands for build-up—tent tweaks, moving gear—and about six helpers for teardown.

Nancy: Shout out to those who can help build up or tear down. Mac, any favorite memories from SHA2017 or MCH2022?

Mac: Crazy stuff gone wrong in hilarious ways—like the “Symphony of Fire” with Tesla coils. Those coils emit huge EMP bursts; they knocked out our LED screens during a test between two stages. Our feedback to the supplier: “Shield your gear.”

Nancy: Cool story. You were also part of a major Dutch hackerspace, right?

Mac: Hacker 42—addictive place.

Nancy: If you want to learn about Productiehuis or get good coffee, visit hack42. The space is constantly evolving and it’s cool.

Ad: Anything else about Productiehuis or reasons to visit WHY2025 or hackerspaces?

Mac: No, I think we covered it all.

Nancy: Thanks for shedding light on your team. We’ll see you soon.

Mac: Take care.

Nancy: Based on Mac’s needs, our vacancy of the week is for angels. Team Production House will have 200 people—the need is huge. We need help guiding angels before and during camp, so Team:Volunteers, please spread the word and explain “angel” roles to newcomers.

Ad: Getting feedback on what an “angel” is will help new attendees. Reach out to Team:Volunteers to sign up.

Ad: Utt, do we have listener questions or feedback?

Ad: We got an email from someone asking if any hackers or groups at WHY are working on social-good initiatives—like Digital City, DDS voting-computer audits, Access for All, Dutch Institute for Vulnerability Disclosure, Bits of Freedom, Right to Repair, Hacker without Borders, or projects aiding people in crisis. If you’re working on such initiatives, let us know so we can invite others to join the conversation.

Nancy: I’ll check with Team:Content. If you know of cool, cause-driven projects, please tell us. Thanks, Alvin, for the question.

Ad: Leave feedback in comments, like, subscribe, and email us at whycast@why2025.org.

Nancy: Before I forget: on Wednesday, November 6 at 20:00 CET, we have an online all-teams meetup. Find details on the wiki, and join to hear what each team is working on and how to get involved.

Ad: Wiki.WHY2025.org/meetings

Ad: Thank you for listening and I hope to see you next Friday—WHYday!